Last week on Game of Thrones, Stannis Baratheon set the bar for unpopular behavior on a show that has featured stabbing a fetus to death. As a natural salmon (always swimming against the current), I was immediately drawn to look at Stannis' actions a bit closer, and I have determined that not only was Stannis' burning alive of his own daughter not as bad as it seems; it was the right thing to do.
Burning a small child alive, in a vacuum, is a horrible crime. However, Shireen's death did not occur in a vacuum. Many viewers seem to have forgotten that Melisandre prophesied that Stannis is the savior of the world of men who must take the throne in order to defeat the White Walkers. If Stannis fails, everyone is going to die (and then be reborn as weird zombie things).
Now, it's possible that Melisandre is wrong about her prophesy. However, she has not been wrong very often (just ask Rob Stark and Renly "I Got Killed by a Vagina Smoke Monster" Baratheon). So let's assume that her prophecy is correct. Stannis and his army are currently stuck in a snow storm that shows no signs of abating. If the snow doesn't give, he will have to retreat and winter with his army at Castle Black, and winter in Westeros lasts years at a time. The Boltons will become entrenched in the North, and everyone will probably die. The only chance he (and maybe the world) has is if Stannis can break through the snows, get to Winterfell, and save the North and eventually everyone else. Melisandre has told Stannis that he must sacrifice Shireen in order to get Rh'llor to thaw the snows.
The Stannis haters seem to believe that Stannis murdered his daughter when the alternative was to not murder her and only lose the chance to become king. However, Stannis believes, reasonably, that his choice was to kill his daughter, become king, and save humanity or let his daughter live and condemn her and everyone else in Westeros to death. And this is the genius of Game of Thrones. It's very likely that by the end of the series, fans of the show will be considering whether or not burning an innocent girl alive at the stake was the right thing to do. And many will conclude that it was. I already have.
While I appreciate you're analysis of this, I maintain that it's never the "right" thing to burn an innocent girl at the stake. The season finale illustrated that this ended up backfiring spectacularly on Stannis. While I do understand the argument for taking actions for the "greater good", I think Stannis' motivations were purely selfish. He could have gone back to castle black, wintered, and eventually returned to winterfell, all while keeping his daughter and only heir alive. While this would likely lend itself to a greater struggle down the road, he still wouldn't have to gamble with the death of his daughter in order to maybe deliver a victory. A gamble that he obviously lost. I am a big Stannis fan, I just felt this was out of character and occurred primarily for shock value.
ReplyDeleteThat's a totally valid view. Especially in hindsight, it looks like he made a terrible decision. However, if you truly think your choices are between killing your own daughter or condemning the world to death, that's an easy choice. I don't think Stannis is a selfish guy. He never would have gone to the wall in the first place if he were only interested in himself. He cut off the fingers of a man who saved his life. He has always been a person who puts his own emotions to the side to do what he thinks is right. He just may have been wrong on this one.
DeleteCool, thanks for the reply. Despite what Stannis did, I still believe him to have some admirable qualities. I think Brienne saw that as well. Now here's the big question, and I'd like to get your opinion on this: Do you think Stannis is still alive? While his supposed end was most certainly worthy of his character, we all know that no one is absolutely dead on GOT unless explicitly shown. Therefore, I found it curious that they cut away. Maybe Brienne decided he would be her only chance to take down the Boltons? I've seen alot if talk about people thinking he's still alive. I'd be interested to hear your take. Personally, I think it was a fitting end to a great character, but I can also see much potential in a sort of redemption story(however unlikely that may be in the cynical world of GOT haha).
DeleteI have thought the exact same thing :). It's possible that they just wanted to give Stannis a dignified death and not show him beheaded, but I also think Brienne might have let him live for the reasons you stated. If I had to bet, I'd say he's dead. Fingers crossed though.
DeleteI agree that it was the right decision. My complaint is that the show portrayed Stannis so poorly. I don't know if you've read the books, but Stannis is just so inept in the show.
ReplyDeleteI refuse to believe that Ramsay somehow lit his entire camp of the realm's greatest military mind (see below) on fire without ever being detected. And I refuse to believe that HALF of Stannis's army (with all the horses!) left his camp without anyone noticing. On the other hand, the Boltons, despite not being supported by most of the north, and seemingly not having any massive source of money, raise an army of tens of thousands and overwhelm Stannis. The reason why bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys.
Instead of being a show where, as you said, "fans of the show will be considering whether or not burning an innocent girl alive at the stake was the right thing to do," Stannis "evil religious nutjob" Baratheon was just thrown under the bus so that we get excited for Brienne to kill her.
I stole the following notes directly and shamelessly from Reddit, but in the books:
- As a mere teenager, Stannis led the successful defense of Storm's End, refusing to surrender the castle to the Tyrell host besieging the castle and the Redwyne Fleet blockading Shipwrecker Bay
- He (likely) uses joint arms and launches an amphibious assault to take Dragonstone from the Targaryens -- all this after he's been holed up inside Storm's End for the better part of a year.
- He's appointed Master of Ships. When the Greyjoy Rebellion takes place, he traps Victarion & Aeron Greyjoy in the channel between Fair Isle and the Westerlands. He ends up destroying the Iron Fleet, despite minimal previous naval experience.
- He competently led an attempt to seize a city by force of arms at King's Landing. Despite massive walls and early setbacks (Wildfire destroys his amphibious force), he pushes up against two gates (Mud and River) and nearly breaches them, throwing back assaults by Sandor Clegane. Meanwhile, his men cross a bridge of burning ships to try to continue the assault where the amphibious assault faltered. He's really only defeated when Tywin shows up and takes him in the rear.
- He's an excellent maneuver commander. At the Battle of Castle Black, he uses cavalry to attack the Wildlings with a partial-pincer movement in bad weather.
- Stannis uses indigenous forces (Northern Mountain Clansmen) to help take Deepwood Motte. He uses camouflage, reconnaissance and commando raids to accomplish his goals.
In the show, Stannis failed to keep his men in formation, failed to have a picket line, failed to scout ahead, failed to prepare the battlefield. He's a failure. Honestly, the whole battle read like an especially boring part of a dry medieval history lecture.
I can buy him burning her, and if he believed what he believed, then it was definitely the right decision. But I cannot buy the contrivance of him ignoring Mel's fallibility (Balon leech and House Goodmen's assault) and burning his daughter with no questions asked. At least make it seem like the situation was more desperate or something! It's completely out of character.
Yea, totally agree. Those are some great points. Stannis is one of my favorite characters, and I don't like that he died in such a stupid way. I like Brienne a lot too, but it did seem very contrived to have him become an idiot, and then she just walked into the fray at the right moment. The farther the show gets from the books, the more it is becoming like a typical TV show, which concerns me a bit. That said, I'm still holding out hope that Stannis isn't actually dead because we didn't see him die :)
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